Dr. Manal Fakhoury, the clinical co-ordinator for ORMC- Orange Regional Medical Center, she serves on the board for the Central Florida United Way. That Dr. Manal Fakhoury. I happen to have met her at wedding In Orlando, and she is beyond a doubt, one of the warmest, gentlest souls I have ever met. She is engaged in her community, beloved actually.

Here is how she describes herself on Facebook:

So finally sir, your anti Muslim rhetoric is fine with most here, but when you go so far as to denigrate as generous and giving a woman as Dr. Fakhoury ( yes there is an "h" in her name) I must say no. No I know from personal experience you are wrong, and not just mistaken, but wrong. You are wrong and wrong and wrongheaded.

You should try to find out more about this woman before you slander her here.

Your hatred for Muslims diminishes you and your arguments.

http://www.ocalastyle.com/styleadmin/newsadmin/templates/style-temp...

In addition, you seem to have very extensive knowledge Dr. Fakhouy for only meeting her at wedding in Orlando once.  Seems more like P.R. Damage Control.

Amanda,

I know Steve Emerson of the IPT who wrote the article and he does not think Manal Fakhoury is not a problem.... quite contrary.   I supplied some material, but the first article was dealing with the donation and Bedier.

Dr. Zuddi Jasser of AIFD (American Islamist for Democracy) is a former Navy Officer, Physician, and speaks against Bedier, CAIR, and other Muslim Brotherhood Front groups, and Bediers groups which Manal is a part vocally and is a frequent speaker on Fox News.

He is a plugged in, has my support, is a friend of our cause, ACT for America, and this nation and talks about how Islam needs to be reformed and speaks against Sharia Law.

ONE PROBLEM this patriot has... is ISLAMIC DOCTRINE of the Trilogy (Quran and Sunna (Sira and Hadith) The which are the basis of Islamic Law or the Sharia Law.  The sira is the biography of Muhammed and the Hadith are the traditions of Muhammed (what he did), the perfect man to be followed and most of this trilogy is political in nature and the problem Dr. Jasser has.

He chooses to follow just the peaceful verses or 1st meccan period/early verses which have been abrogated by militant political Islams later verses which carry final Authority, which makes him an Apostate or enemy of the state according to Islam, and why after calling for Muslims to unify in protest against 9/11 and many subsequent calls on the Islamic community have failed and he has less than a dozen follower.... Manal and company are not among this truly moderate group and in fact oppose him.

In addition, Islamic calls for the killing of Apostates and another group we work with called Former Muslims United have a Religious Freedome Pledge which was sent to 46 Mosques and Islamic centers in Florida and Major Leaders, Bedier and Fakhoury center included asking to live in America free from harm, persecution, or threat of death in accordance with Fatwas and Islamic law.... care to guess how many Isamic leaders, Mosques, and if Bedier and Fakhoury signed this pledge?

NONE.... why, they cant... lest they become Apostates or enemies of the state and would be in the same boat as the noble Apostate or Former Muslims and have to live under fear of Vigilanty death from their family, friends, and fellow Islamist as Dr. Jasser has been threatend and others like Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, Amil Imani, Walid Shoebat, etc..... 

MPAC another front group did respond saying they would not endorse a group, which Parvez Ahmed former CAIR leader and Jax Human Rights Commissioner used verbatim the same words "Coincidentally".   I imagine Manal and company would use this same tactic or use some excuse were you to ask her to sign such a document.   My email is actjacksonville@gmail.com and would be glad to get you a copy of this pledge for this Moderate and Sweet lady who is a wonderful community leader and advocate of Civil Rights via the UVA to sign.  This is a constitutional issue and a Human Rights issue.... Bedier sits on the Human Rights Commission and Manal is involved with United Voices for America and many other groups.

You can make me a believe if you get this document to Manal Fakhoury, her Husband, and Ahmed Bedier to sign.  If any of these individuals will sign this document condemning specific Islamic laws and fatwa calling for the death of those who leave Islam I will concede you are correct and I am wrong about Manal Fakhoury.

If they refuse for any reason... I will ask you concede on this forum I was correct.  DEAL

Most of Islam is political in nature and about Muhammad.... was meant in the post below.

Amanda,  Here is some Laws from the Umdat Al Salik or Sacred Islamic Law Manual which may help you.

a4.2 As for the basic obligation of Islam, and what relates to tenets of faith, it is adequate for one to believe in everything brought by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and to credit it with absolute conviction free of any doubt.

The Muslim Pledge for Religious Freedom

 And Safety from Harm for Former Muslims

Whereas:

All four schools of Sunni Islamic law (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, and Hanbali), as well as the main schools of Shia Islamic law, unanimously agree that a former Muslim male, also known as an apostate, must be executed. While some hold that an apostate woman should also be executed, the Encyclopedia of Islamic Law: A compendium of the Major Schools, adapted by Laleh Bakhtiar, states that she should be imprisoned or beaten five times a day until she repents or dies. These specific world renowned Islamic legal authorities join in this consensus:

Head of the Fatawa Council of Al-Azhr, Abdullah al-Mishadd, of Al-Azhar University, the pre-eminent Shariah legal authority, Fatwa issued September 23, 1978: “This man has committed apostasy; he must be given a chance to repent and if he does not then he must be killed according to Shariah. As far as his children are concerned, as long as they are children they are considered Muslim, but after they reach the age of puberty, then if they remain with Islam they are Muslim, but if they leave Islam and they do not repent they must be killed…”*

Mufti of Lebanon, Beirut, Fatwa issued November 13, 1989: “Now, should the apostate (male or female) persist in his apostasy, he should be given the opportunity to repent, prior to his being put to death, out of respect for his Islam. A misunderstanding on his part may have taken place, and there would thus be an opportunity to rectify it. Often apostasy takes place on account of an offer (of inducement). So Islam must be presented to the apostate, things should be clarified, and his sin made manifest. He should be imprisoned for three days, so that he may have the opportunity to reflect upon his situation. This three-day period has been deemed adequate. But if the man or the woman has not repented of his or her raddah, but has continued to persist in it, then he or she should be put to death…”*

Ibn Rushd (Averroes), The Distinguished Jurist's Primer, "Chapter on the Hukm of the Murtadd (Apostate),” Volume II, (p. 552), Section 56.10:  “An apostate, if taken captive before he declares war, is to be executed by agreement in the case of a man, because of the words of the Prophet (God's peace and blessings be upon him), "Slay those who change their din:.  They disagreed about the execution of a woman and whether she to be required to repent before execution.  The majority said that a woman (apostate) is to be executed…”

Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller, translation approved by Al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy and IIIT, 1994 (p. 595): “ o8.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed….o8.4 There is no indemnity for killing an apostate (O: or any expiation, since it is killing someone who deserves to die).”

Ismail R. Al-Faruki , the Founder of International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), Islam, 1979 (p. 68):  “That is why Islamic Law has treated people who have converted out of Islam as political traitors…[Islam] must deal with the traitors when convicted after due process of law either with banishment, life imprisonment, or capital punishment…but once their conversion is proclaimed, they must be dealt with as traitors to

REST OF PLEDGE

Ismail R. Al-Faruki , the Founder of International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), Islam, 1979 (p. 68):  “That is why Islamic Law has treated people who have converted out of Islam as political traitors…[Islam] must deal with the traitors when convicted after due process of law either with banishment, life imprisonment, or capital punishment…but once their conversion is proclaimed, they must be dealt with as traitors to the state.”

Louay Safi, the former Executive Director of IIIT and the Executive Director of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) Leadership Development Center, Peace and the Limits of War, IIIT publication, 2003 (p. 25): “A quiet desertion of personal Islamic duties is not a sufficient reason for inflicting death on a person.  Only when the person’s desertion of Islam is used as a political tool for instigating a state of disorder, or revolting against the law of Islam, can the individual apostate then be put to death as a just punishment for his act of treason and betrayal of the Muslim community.” 

Shaikh Syed Abul A’ala Maududi, Pakistani Islamic authority, The Punishment of the Apostate According to Islamic Law, translation by Syed Silas Husain, 1994: “In any case the heart of the matter is that children born of Muslim lineage will be considered Muslims and according to Islamic law the door of apostasy will never be opened to them. If anyone of them renounces Islam, he will be as deserving of execution as the person who has renounced kufr to become a Muslim and again has chosen the way of kufr. All the jurists of Islam agree with this decision. On this topic absolutely no difference exists among the experts of shari'ah.”

Therefore:

To support the civil rights of former Muslims, also known as apostates from Islam, I sign “The Muslim Pledge for Religious Freedom and Safety from Harm for Former Muslims”:

I renounce, repudiate and oppose any physical intimidation, or worldly and corporal punishment, of apostates from Islam, in whatever way that punishment may be determined or carried out by myself or any other Muslim including the family of the apostate, community, Mosque leaders, Shariah court or judge, and Muslim government or regime.

Signature: _________________________________________________________________________

Printed Name: _____________________________________________________________________

Organization/Title: __________________________________________________________________

Date: _____________________________________________________________________________

Amanda, as soon as you get this pledge signed by Manal, her Husband, or Bedier.... I will concede you correct.  Anyone not all.... you will have no such luck.

But I ask you pubicly concede I am correct when all three refuse sign this Document which as stated earlier is a Human Rights Issue and Constitutional issue.   Bedier and Manal say they are advocates for Civil Rights and Bedier is President of the Tampa Human Rights Commission ...this should be an easy task as simple email to the commissioner and Manal and Husband who are the secretary and president of the Islamic Center of Ocala.   Would love to see these community leaders set an example for those who misunderstand their faith and commit acts of violence in the name of the religion of peace.

So any Muslim who doesn't sign this pledge is an enemy of this country?

So I looked up IIIT and it turns out one their own just won a lifetime service award from CAIR.

Dr. Iqbal Unus, Director of The Fairfax Institute at IIIT received CAIR’s 2011 Lifetime Service Award.

So since CAIR is associated with the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, how is IIIT any better than al Queda.

Amanda, Really?  is this the best you can come up with?  not even sure what your point is supposed to be?   Are you endorsing the IIIT?  

CAIR is a Federally designated Muslim Brother hood Front Group and the Palestine Committee aka HAMAS in the largest terrorism Finance case in U.S. history and CAIR member were sentenced to 65 Years in Prison as a result.   Spedifically they were funding the families of Suicide Bombers.

Congresswoman Sue Myrick called them the Propaganda arm of Hamas in America... and she just happens to be the Co-Chair of the Counter Terrorism Caucus. 

Howver, IIIT or the International Institute of Islamic Thought put their seal of approval in the Umdat Al Salik aka Reliance of the Traveller or Sacred Islamic Law Manual which calls for your death as a non-Muslim.  This translation was in 1999 not a 1000 years ago.

o9.0 JIHAD

(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion

So I can assume you care NOTHING for the rights of American Musims who want to worship in their own way or want to leave Islam?   Manal, her husband and Bedier have refused to sign the Religous Freedom Pledge... they as Civil Rights activist and Human Rights Commisioners should lead the way and set an example for other to follow but refuse to.... and therefore do not agree we should all have equal rights.   I guess you support this view?    If you do not... I again challenge you to get just one of them to sign the pledge.   PUT UP OR SHUT UP!   dont try to obfuscate or redirect.

Amanda,  I am sorry... this is not fair.  You are just not armed to engage in this debate.  Please make youself familiar with these terms and the Trilogy.  

Abrogation or Progressive Revealation as it applies to Islamic Doctrine then we can have an intelligent conversation on equal ground.   Right now you are running on emotion and personal feelings and not knowledge or facts.

Christianity does not say gay people are an abomination....the Old Testament does.  Christianity does not condone the act of Sodomy and the act of sodomy is an abomination.  As a Christian I am to love the sinner and hate the sin.

I also love Muslim and hope they find true salvation.  Islam teaches their god Allah is the greatest deciever and he will decieve the non Muslim and that Muslims are to decieve the non-Muslim.  My god teaches he can not lie and we are not to lie.  Two holy books... opposite messages cant share same God or be same God.

Are former Muslims being killed and threatend in America .... Absolutely.   Honor Killing are happening all the time. The most recent Fatima Abdullah in Tampa.  We helped Save Rifqa Bary in Ohio whose father and brother were going to kill her for leaving the faith.  The Sayid Sister killed by thier father for not living in accordance with Sharia....  over two dozen documented cases in America.

But continue to attack christianity, avoid the truth of Islam and support your socialist atheist occupiers.    Get Manal, Bedier and or Manals Husband to condemn the barbarism.   Are you AFRAID THEY WON'T...... I KNOW THEY WON'T  ...HOW, because thier Allah and Prophet says they will apostates or enemies of the state.  

Since you asked the question... How many Christians and Jews are committing murder in the name of thier religion in past several hundred years (lets leave the 200 years to liberate christian holy sites from invading Muslim armys - the crusades out).  Islam on the other hand has perpetrated over 17000 acts in its name just since 911.   If you can name 20 in the past 10 years by Christians and Jews combined... who have killed in the name of religion I would be shocked.

BACK TO THE PLEDGE - First of all I do not know of any Gays who do not have full rights in this country.  What they are after is SPECIAL rights and to Classified as a SPECIAL class.   However I have no problem sign a pledge and support their full rights under the Constitution.

NOW I am not holding a PUBIC OFFICE which is to enforce HUMAN RIGHTS and I am not part of a CIVIL RIGHTS organization which has a mandate to protect equal rights.... Bedier and Fakhoury do hold these positions..... SO WHY DO MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM TO NOT FULLFILL their SELF PROCLAIMED Responsibilities????    Do you believe in Religious Freedom or NOT?

You are advocating against religions Freedom.

Amanda,

Answer please answer few questions for me..... 

1.  Do the laws regarding apostates listed in the pledge with all legal references go against the American Constitution and American Values?

2.  Do you believe that such a pledge citizen who percieve themselves a persecuted class of people in accordance with a religious mandate as an ureasonable request?

3.  Does this document as for an endorsement of any specific organization?  explain

4.  Would you as an individual have a problem signing such a document yourself?   Yes or No and why?

So then, you are indeed okay with the fact that just because some Christians say there is something wrong with being gay, then it is all right for the US government and state governments to deny them full citizenship. It isn't in the Constitution and there is no other reason than to insert fundementalist Christian principles into our laws. And I am against that notion in theory and in principle. And if states start enacting laws allowing Muslims to be put to death for leaving the faith, you bet, I will be the first to protest that action. And if any Muslim is put to death in this country by another for the same reason, I will be the first to sign up for the jury.

And if a state fails to prosecute someone for murder because that murder was committed under the guise of a religious dogma, I will rail against the state.

But pledges are worthless.

Sodomites and apostates seems to me face the same bigotry, just from different people.

You sign a pledge that sodomites have full citizenship, wed if they choose, adopt if they choose, share insurance policies if they choose, then I will go down and ask Manal to sign.

So Christianity isn't based on the Old Testament?

Gay people can't get married, can't adopt. 

But the bottom line is this, with absolutely no direct evidence, you have made wild accusations against a woman who in her community, is held in high esteem. Only through guilt by association are you able to besmirch her in any way. Rhere is nothing that she has ever done that you can directly accuse her of having. It is McCarthyism. It smacks of bigotry. So what did Jesus say about all this? Are you not familiar with the parable of the Good Samaritan. The story of course there is the Samaritans were considered a lesser people in those days, much like a Muslim is considered in your world.

1.  Do the laws regarding apostates listed in the pledge with all legal references go against the American Constitution and American Values?

 No, nor are there any references to gay people or Christians in the Constitution

2.  Do you believe that such a pledge citizen who percieve themselves a persecuted class of people in accordance with a religious mandate as an ureasonable request?

 I have no idea what you are asking.

3.  Does this document ask for an endorsement of any specific organization?  explain

Well I would assume that it is directed towards Muslims, since it deals with a metter of their faith.

4.  Would you as an individual have a problem signing such a document yourself?   Yes or No and why?

I have no interest in signing as anyone's faith is their own business. As I have said earlier if anyone murders someone for any reason, then I wiil be in line to try them.

Amanda.

1.  Law regarding apostates do not go against the constitutions?    are you INSANE?   the constitution guarantees religious liberty.   Sharis law guarnatees death if you leave Islam or are an apostate.  How do you reconciles this?

I do not mean to be rude. but what an idioutic statement.

Amanda,

regarding the rest of your answers... or more accurately non-answers you are incapble of sound and decisivie decicisons.   You are an embarresement to yourself and I am done.   You have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt you aren quite incompetent of making a sound decision.   I willl pray for you.

Amanda,

Let me spell it out for you.......

Killing of an Apostate is not a religious element of Islam but political element or Islam and major  element within Sharia Law, a law which has replaced or systematically destroyed the religious freedoms and laws of the land in every country they have conquered...... this is a historical fact, this is in accordance with ALL authoritative Islamic doctrine.... and that is my point.

You try to defend a positon with emotion and feelings, no factual evidence, and when taken to task... then avoid the one way you could clearly prove your "FRIEND" Manal Fakhoury was good moderate Muslim by getting her as a "Civil Rights" activist to sign the PLEDGE FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM below... but you instead infuse rhethoric and opinion instead.

P.S. too late have already been praying for you.  God Bless

P.S.S.   For the RECORD I never once called you a name.   I said your statement was Idiotic.  and asked if you were Insane?  when you suggested that the laws in our constituion do not go against the killing of apostates.

I never once resorted to name calling, however you can no longer say the same....calling me  Stupid, Bigot, an Einstien pants wetting litttle boy.... and that I seemed more like a them (Muslim) than different ( a Bigoted Comment in itself), and all this in just one short paragraph. 

WOW!   Now who is the Bully and intolerant person?

CARLA,

Great comments and posting of Islamic Documentation.   Thank you

Amanda.... you want to continue to debate COMPARATIVE RELIGION.... and ignore you fist argument that Manal Fakhoury was this wonderful and moderate Muslim with not ties to the Muslim Brotherhood... but refuse to address this issue and Manal refusal to sign the Religious Freedom Pledge in the Past in her capacity as a civil rights worker and leader in the Islamic Community.... just want to keep this in the forefront.  Wonder why you are so afraid to address this issue and prove me wrong.

Now you keep going back to Islam as a religion.... (which I have no problem with), however Islam has not been purely a religion since the first Meccan period and had dismal record or failed.  Mohammad preached the RELIGON of ISLAM for 13 years and had less than 150 followers, when they were run out of Mecca to Medina the date the Islamic Calendar begins... Muhammed became a political and Military learder and was the beginning of the Political Ideology of Islam an intolerant and totalitarinan Political system which grew to over 24,000 followers in just 10 years of political and physical JIHAD.   IT is NOT a RELIGION and the country of Italy is the only one to officially recognize this to date.  

Amanda.... Please try to pay attention.   I explained exactly where Sharia Law comes from.   The Quran and Sunna (Sira (biography of Muhammed) and Hadith (the Traditions of Muhammad)), then about 1000 years ago all the scholars got together to determine which Hadith were false, Weak, or Strong (Human Reasoning or Ijtihad... so much for the perfect book or revealation of Allah), and once done there had to 100% unanimous concensus (IJMA) to become part of Sharia Law.

Ijma or consensus is one of the four sources of Islamic jurisprudence.

“Ijma is the verbal noun of the Arabic word ajma’a, which as two meanings: to determine and to agree upon something. To give an example of the former, the expression ajma’a fulan ‘ala kadha, means that ‘so-and-so decided upon such-and-such’. This usage of ajma’a is found both in the Qur’an and in the hadith. The other meaning of ajma’a is ‘unanimous agreement’. hence the phrase ajma’a al-qawm ‘ala kadha means ‘the people reached a unanimous agreement on such-and-such’. The second meaning of ijma often subsumes the first, in that whenever there is a unanimous agreement on something, there is also a decision on that matter.”[1]

The Qur'an and the Sunnah are two primary and foundational sources, while ijma and qiyas (analogical reasoning) are two secondary sources. 

“Classical Muslim methodology (usul) refers to the basic textual sources and methods used in producing Muslim attitudes in different spheres of life including international relations. These sources are the Qur'an, Sunnah, ijma (consensus), and ijtihad (the use of human reason or aql) in elaboration and interpretation of the Shari'ah. Ijtihad includes the fourth major source of Muslim thought, the qiyas (analogy) ...”[2]

"... no one at all should [give an opinion] on a specific matter by merely saying: It is permitted or prohibited, unless he is certain of [legal] knowledge, and this knowledge must be based on the Qur'an and the sunna, or [derived] from ijma (consensus) and qiyas (analogy)."

the fourth major source of Muslim thought, the qiyas (analogy) ...”[1]

"... no one at all should [give an opinion] on a specific matter by merely saying: It is permitted or prohibited, unless he is certain of [legal] knowledge, and this knowledge must be based on the Qur'an and the sunna, or [derived] from ijma (consensus) and qiyas (analogy)."[2]

From dogma to norms to laws/codes, ijma is recognized to have a pivotal place in Islamic discourse and socio-religious unity. 

"This important doctrine played a vital role in the integration of the Muslim community. In its early phase it manifested itself as a general average opinion, a common feeling of the community, and as a binding force of the body of law against unsuccessful and stray opinions. In the classical period it developed with its complex theory and ramifications. It became a decisive authority in religious affairs. All religious doctrines were standardized through ijma. Its rejection was considered heresy, indeed sometimes tantamount to unbelief."[3]

"It must be noted ... that unlike the Qur'an and Sunnah, ijma does not directly partake of divine revelation. As a doctrine and proof of Shari'ah, ijma is basically a rational proof. The theory of ijma is also clear on the point that it is a binding proof."[4]

"Ijma plays a crucial role in the development of Shari'a. The existing body of fiqh is the product of a long process of ijtihad and ijma."[5]