Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jack on March 22, 2012 at 5:32pm

This election is for the Republicans to lose, and so far, they are doing a really bang up job of it.

Ken again I agree with you 100%..................but if the democrates and indepentents are so energized about Ron Paul and they get to vote in all of these primaries and caucuses then why didn't Ron Paul get more of the vote? He has a following, I agree, they are pasionate and loyal but their just isn't enough of them to get him elected.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on March 22, 2012 at 5:47pm

Well, Jack, that's what I mean.  You have no understanding of Ron Paul's foreign policy positions, you just repeat what the mass media has told you.  This is apparent because you keep repeating a falsehood.  And for your edification, I wasn't a Ron Paul supporter until after it became apparent we were going to get Romney shoved down or throats or worse Santorum.  "Ron Paul never stood a chance" because idiots never gave him one.  But the same people who wouldn't listen to him are the ones who gave us John McCain four years ago.  How well did that work?  Had it not been for Sarah Palin, he probably wouldn't have gotten any votes at all.  Meanwhile OBozo is as happy as a clam in mud because he knows with Romney he has the best possible chance of winning a second term.  And also, how many had an opportunity to vote for Herman Cain?  Was he ever convicted of anything?  Did he ever have his day in court?  No!  The LameBrain Media took him out.  Too dangerous and he would prevent OBozo from playing the race card.

You are being played for a fool Jack.  But don't feel bad.  You have a lot of company.  All the Country Club Republicans are there with you.  Personally, I will stand on principle this election.  I will not vote for the "lesser of two evils" for to vote for the lesser evil is still voting for evil.  If there is no one worthy of the office of the president I will not vote for anyone.  But I am reasonably sure there will be someone worthy.  Just not in the Republican or Democrat tickets.  So if OBozo gets four more years, blame the Country Club Republicans.....and yourself since you helped create the situation.

 

Ken, as for foreign policy I repeat what I heard come directly out of Ron Pauls mouth. If there is any confusion or misunderstanding about it, then it comes from RP himself and although you have informed me otherwise, I still have not heard anything different come out of RPs own mouth.

As for everything else what part of I agree with you don't you understand? Almost 100%, the only difference is I am able to accept reality and you want to deny it. I held my breath and voted for McCain last time and I will do the same thing this time when I am forced to vote for Romney. Our main difference is that your willing to throw your vote away by standing on principle and Im not. I would much rather vote for RP than Romney but on "principle" I wont waste my vote on someone who clearly does not have a chance on beating Obama because by doing so it would be the same as voting for Obama himself and that is something that I just refuse to do......................if that makes me a stupid fool in your eyes, well I am sorry that you see it that way. I however, respect your stand on principle and honor your right to vote for whomever you choose even if I consider it to be throwing your vote away.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Stump on March 22, 2012 at 5:48pm

You are correct Jack.  And the people who fit that description I don't.  On the other hand, arguing with a wall doesn't do much good either.  And when all you get in the way of feedback is more of the same misrepresentations and falsehoods over and over again, then one is pretty much arguing with a wall.

As for your question of why Ron Paul hasn't gotten more of the vote than he has is because of the same misrepresentations I mentioned above.  Then you also have the number of people that share in the vote count.  You have Mitt Romney outspending every other person in the race by five to one or more.  Ron Paul doesn't accept donations from the big special interest groups, so can't financially compete.  And there is also the vast number of people who are far more interested in who wins American Idol or Dancing with the Stars than they are politics so pay no attention until they have to go vote....or stay home.  Let's face it.  If we really had an informed and intelligent electorate would we have ever gotten OBozo in the first place?  Would we have a president that can't even produce the papers most peoples pets have?  I think not.

And Jack, it's nothing personal.  You just seem to bring out my frustrations more than most.  Probably because of your parroting the false hood of "isolationist" comments and the "foreign policy" comments.  We are broke.  Giving our enemies foreign aid just makes no sense to me.  Giving our allies foreign aid, when their economy is much better than our own just doesn't make sense to me.

Jack Wright said:

Ken,

These people who have never learned how to think drive me nuts!

 

Same likewise............... when you want to persuade people in a conversation and/or debate, you don't disrespect their opinions, call them names and attack them personally. Especially those that agree with you in principle but who can see the reality of the situation.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Stump on March 22, 2012 at 6:04pm

No, that doesn't make you a "stupid fool" in my eyes.  But based on what you just said, did you not say you basically have no principles?  That's what I "heard" the same as you "heard" Ron Paul say he was an isolationist.  I will agree that Ron Paul has done a horrific job of explaining himself on that issue.  But he has done so.  It's just that practically no one was listening.  I know because I shared the same belief as you on that issue until I heard him clarify himself.   I also held my nose and voted for McCain.  I won't do it again.  If this is the best the Republican Party can offer, then they don't deserve to hold the White House anyway. 

Jack Wright said:

Well, Jack, that's what I mean.  You have no understanding of Ron Paul's foreign policy positions, you just repeat what the mass media has told you.  This is apparent because you keep repeating a falsehood.  And for your edification, I wasn't a Ron Paul supporter until after it became apparent we were going to get Romney shoved down or throats or worse Santorum.  "Ron Paul never stood a chance" because idiots never gave him one.  But the same people who wouldn't listen to him are the ones who gave us John McCain four years ago.  How well did that work?  Had it not been for Sarah Palin, he probably wouldn't have gotten any votes at all.  Meanwhile OBozo is as happy as a clam in mud because he knows with Romney he has the best possible chance of winning a second term.  And also, how many had an opportunity to vote for Herman Cain?  Was he ever convicted of anything?  Did he ever have his day in court?  No!  The LameBrain Media took him out.  Too dangerous and he would prevent OBozo from playing the race card.

You are being played for a fool Jack.  But don't feel bad.  You have a lot of company.  All the Country Club Republicans are there with you.  Personally, I will stand on principle this election.  I will not vote for the "lesser of two evils" for to vote for the lesser evil is still voting for evil.  If there is no one worthy of the office of the president I will not vote for anyone.  But I am reasonably sure there will be someone worthy.  Just not in the Republican or Democrat tickets.  So if OBozo gets four more years, blame the Country Club Republicans.....and yourself since you helped create the situation.

 

Ken, as for foreign policy I repeat what I heard come directly out of Ron Pauls mouth. If there is any confusion or misunderstanding about it, then it comes from RP himself and although you have informed me otherwise, I still have not heard anything different come out of RPs own mouth.

As for everything else what part of I agree with you don't you understand? Almost 100%, the only difference is I am able to accept reality and you want to deny it. I held my breath and voted for McCain last time and I will do the same thing this time when I am forced to vote for Romney. Our main difference is that your willing to throw your vote away by standing on principle and Im not. I would much rather vote for RP than Romney but on "principle" I wont waste my vote on someone who clearly does not have a chance on beating Obama because by doing so it would be the same as voting for Obama himself and that is something that I just refuse to do......................if that makes me a stupid fool in your eyes, well I am sorry that you see it that way. I however, respect your stand on principle and honor your right to vote for whomever you choose even if I consider it to be throwing your vote away.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on March 22, 2012 at 6:05pm

 Let's face it.  If we really had an informed and intelligent electorate would we have ever gotten OBozo in the first place?  Would we have a president that can't even produce the papers most peoples pets have?  I think not.

And Jack, it's nothing personal.  You just seem to bring out my frustrations more than most.  Probably because of your parroting the false hood of "isolationist" comments and the "foreign policy" comments.  We are broke.  Giving our enemies foreign aid just makes no sense to me.  Giving our allies foreign aid, when their economy is much better than our own just doesn't make sense to me.

Ken, again I agree with you 100%, especially with needing a well informed and educated electorate but that is not what we have. The reality is that even if RP were the best choice (lets say he is just for arguements sake) getting him elected with the current state of ignorance in the voting public right now, would be damn near imposible.

The confusion with his polices is entirerly of his own making. And even if you are correct about that confusion, he himself has not said anything to clarify any of the misunderstanding.

Ken, the problem I have with you and your argument is that you think that I am stupid just because I don't agree with you. When in fact I do agree with you. I am just looking at the reality of the current situation. You on the other hand are willing to stand on principle and vote for RP even if it means that Obama gets reelected and Im not. Even though we actually have the same principles. I am just not willing to hand Obama another four years just to make a futile statement. So, as much as I hate voting for the lesser of two evil, I will have to take the lesser evil even if it is still evil. So if the choice was between John, Ron Paul and Satin and I knew that John was the only one that was in the position to beat Satin, then I would have to vote for John because to me Satin is not an acceptable option even if it meant sacraficing my principles for the time being.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Stump on March 22, 2012 at 6:15pm

Ahh, but you see, actually you are.  Not by way of the general election, but by way of the Republican Primaries.  It's a moot point since the primaries are over here anyway.  Unless Ron Paul goes independent, he won't be on the ballot in November anyway.  Hopefully, someone who can draw the crowds of supporters that Ross Perot did will be though.  "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."  I will stand for NOT voting for someone shoved down my throat that I don't think will benefit our country, children and citizens.  Remember Bush's "Read my lips" statement?  Romney, in my opinion wouldn't stand up to Demonic crats any more than Bush did.  If this country is going down to ruin, it won't be with my help.

Jack Wright said:

 Let's face it.  If we really had an informed and intelligent electorate would we have ever gotten OBozo in the first place?  Would we have a president that can't even produce the papers most peoples pets have?  I think not.

And Jack, it's nothing personal.  You just seem to bring out my frustrations more than most.  Probably because of your parroting the false hood of "isolationist" comments and the "foreign policy" comments.  We are broke.  Giving our enemies foreign aid just makes no sense to me.  Giving our allies foreign aid, when their economy is much better than our own just doesn't make sense to me.

Ken, again I agree with you 100%, especially with needing a well informed and educated electorate but that is not what we have. The reality is that even if RP were the best choice (lets say he is just for arguements sake) getting him elected with the current state of ignorance in the voting public right now, would be damn near imposible. The confusion with his polices is entirerly of his own making. And even if you are correct about that confusion, he himself has not said anything to clarify any of the misunderstanding.

 

Ken, the problem I have with you and your argument is that you think that I am stupid just because I don't agree with you. When in fact I do agree with you. I am just looking at the reality of the current situation. You are willing to stand on principle and vote for RP even if it means that Obama gets reelected and I am not. Even though we actually have the same principles. I am just not willing to hand Obama another four years just to make a futile statement.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on March 22, 2012 at 6:18pm

If this is the best the Republican Party can offer, then they don't deserve to hold the White House anyway.

Ken, again I agree with the above statement but if its either Romney or principle I will have to go with Romney. I have actually voted libertarian on several occasions on principle trying to make a statement. However, doing so this time would be actively particapating in Obamas reelection and as a matter of principle that is something that I just won't do.

As much as I hate to admit it, the reality is that it is probably going to either be Obama or Romney and I may not like Romney, but I don't like Obama even more and I couldn't live with myself if I just let that happen and forced my son and his generation to have to suffer the consequences of a second term of Obama. 

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Permalink Reply by Ken Stump on March 22, 2012 at 6:28pm

No Jack, I just take issue with you lumping me into a "cult" and so readily believing anything you read in a newspaper.  Last I looked, the news media was clearly in OBozo's camp.  Being an informed voter requires more than just reading a newspaper or watching TV.  If you didn't see where Ron Paul clarified his position it's because you didn't look. 

As I said, it's a moot point anyway as far as Ron Paul is concerned anyway as far as being on the top of a ticket.  It's pointless to continue this, so I'm bowing out at the point.  My last comment is that voting for Mitt Romney is like asking a doctor to remove a splinter on millimeter at a time.  While at least OBozo will destroy the country in one swell foop and it'll be over with.  Then maybe we can form a second Continental Army and take America back for Americans.

Jack Wright said:

 Let's face it.  If we really had an informed and intelligent electorate would we have ever gotten OBozo in the first place?  Would we have a president that can't even produce the papers most peoples pets have?  I think not.

And Jack, it's nothing personal.  You just seem to bring out my frustrations more than most.  Probably because of your parroting the false hood of "isolationist" comments and the "foreign policy" comments.  We are broke.  Giving our enemies foreign aid just makes no sense to me.  Giving our allies foreign aid, when their economy is much better than our own just doesn't make sense to me.

Ken, again I agree with you 100%, especially with needing a well informed and educated electorate but that is not what we have. The reality is that even if RP were the best choice (lets say he is just for arguements sake) getting him elected with the current state of ignorance in the voting public right now, would be damn near imposible.

The confusion with his polices is entirerly of his own making. And even if you are correct about that confusion, he himself has not said anything to clarify any of the misunderstanding.

Ken, the problem I have with you and your argument is that you think that I am stupid just because I don't agree with you. When in fact I do agree with you. I am just looking at the reality of the current situation. You on the other hand are willing to stand on principle and vote for RP even if it means that Obama gets reelected and Im not. Even though we actually have the same principles. I am just not willing to hand Obama another four years just to make a futile statement. So, as much as I hate voting for the lesser of two evil, I will have to take the lesser evil even if it is still evil. So if the choice was between John, Ron Paul and Satin and I knew that John was the only one that was in the position to beat Satin, then I would have to vote for John because to me Satin is not an acceptable option even if it meant sacraficing my principles for the time being.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on March 22, 2012 at 6:30pm

If this country is going down to ruin, it won't be with my help.  

Ken, see there we agree again............the only difference is I think your helping by voting for RP and there by giving Obama a second term, and you think that Im somehow helping by voting for Romney. Now see there what logical conversation and meaningful debate can do? We agree on everything except the meaning of "HELP"

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Permalink Reply by Jack on March 22, 2012 at 6:39pm

Ken, the days of revolution by force are long since gone. Rebellion in this day of modern warfare has got to be done politically through the ballot box. I too would rather see the nominee be someone other than Romney but he is currently our only option. All we can do now is hope that we can get Obama out of office and elect more Tea Party conservatives into the house and senate, continue to inform and educate our fellow voters and hope that our strength and numbers grow enough to actually be able to get a true constitutional conservative in the white house next time..............The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.................

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Permalink Reply by Ken Stump on March 22, 2012 at 9:16pm

Well Jack, in theory I have to agree with you.  But first of all, your vote or mine isn't going to really influence the outcome.  And I have to live with myself, as you do.  But, since we are speaking in theoretical terms, what do you think might happen if people said "You know, I'm going to vote for who I think will do the best job, regardless of which party they are in and regardless of who the lesser of two evils may be representing the major parties"?  What would happen if everyone said the heck with it.  I'm voting my principles and my principles say vote Libertarian.  Or some other candidate.  And what if by all miracles the majority of people voted that way and that non major party candidate turned out to be the winner?  Would the puppet masters have the nerve to put their own man in anyway?  

I fear for the future of my offspring also.  But say Romney should win.  Which Romney will actually govern in January of next year.  The one campaigning now, or the one that was Governor of Massachusetts?  The one who was the chief architect of Obama care, or the one that now says his first executive order would abolish it.  Which he really can't do anyway.  Do you prefer a splinter to be removed by the very slow careful extraction, or just a quick pull getting it over with?   Romney is the slow extraction.  Obama is the quick pull.  The end result is the same. 

Jack Wright said:

If this is the best the Republican Party can offer, then they don't deserve to hold the White House anyway.

Ken, again I agree with the above statement but if its either Romney or principle I will have to go with Romney. I have actually voted libertarian on several occasions on principle trying to make a statement. However, doing so this time would be actively particapating in Obamas reelection and as a matter of principle that is something that I just won't do.

As much as I hate to admit it, the reality is that it is probably going to either be Obama or Romney and I may not like Romney, but I don't like Obama even more and I couldn't live with myself if I just let that happen and forced my son and his generation to have to suffer the consequences of a second term of Obama. 

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Permalink Reply by Ken Stump on March 22, 2012 at 9:20pm

Yeah, look at how many "Tea Party" Republicans elected two years ago have voted against us since getting elected.  AS for the revolution by force, do you think our own military would fire on us?  Maybe a few, but I don't think so for the majority.  In fact, if they honor the oath they took upon enlistment, they would be helping us.  That oath states to defend the Constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  Not an illegal foreign usurper to the office.

Jack Wright said:

Ken, the days of revolution by force are long since gone. Rebellion in this day of modern warfare has got to be done politically through the ballot box. I too would rather see the nominee be someone other than Romney but he is currently our only option. All we can do now is hope that we can get Obama out of office and elect more Tea Party conservatives into the house and senate, continue to inform and educate our fellow voters and hope that our strength and numbers grow enough to actually be able to get a true constitutional conservative in the white house next time..............The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.................

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