Comment

Comment by amanda choate on December 2, 2011 at 1:10pm

Were this beheading arrested? Yes. That is the point. There is no argument that supports these acts, it is considered a crime. Murder. That is the point of our system, being an apostate in the US does not mean entitle others to kill you. Nor does being a witch. Or an atheist. Or Hindi or anything else. I would prefer the rest of the world to believe likewise, Amnesty International is one the few groups who make this an issue. Pledges make no difference, governments must be held accountable. The continent of Africa is rife with zealots who kill based on these types of killings, whether it be religious, tribal or racial. No matter what you call it, genocide, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, the rationale does not matter, it is wrong.
It is noble that you seek to protect the weak. This pledge however shouldn't be the single defining element in determining a person's legitimacy.
If Dr. Ahmed had signed it, then he would be okay?

Comment by ACT Jacksonville on December 2, 2011 at 11:33am

Mrs. Choate,

 

What you should be asking ..... IS WHY THESE FORMER MUSLIMS FELT IT NECESSARY TO TAKE THE TIME TO PREPARE SUCH A DOCUMENT AND THEN DISTRIBUTE IT TO EVERY MOSQUE AND ISLAMIC CENTER IN FLORIDA, AS WELL AS TO MOSQUES AND LEADERS OUTSIDE THE STATE.

 

Then you should ask why NONE of them would sign a document with is clearly a constitutional and human rights issue.  

 

Then you can asky why Human Rights Commissioners Parvez Ahmed of Jacksonville, and Ahmed Bedier of Tampa (both Fmr CAIR/Hamas leaders) refuse to sign it, despite both being in Human Rights and Advocasy Posiitons?

When you start to actually give some substance and not just personal opinion.... you might start to gain some credibility.

Comment by ACT Jacksonville on December 2, 2011 at 11:22am

Pledge continued.... see post below for first half of pledge.

 

Louay Safi, the former Executive Director of IIIT and the Executive Director of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) Leadership Development Center, Peace and the Limits of War, IIIT publication, 2003 (p. 25): “A quiet desertion of personal Islamic duties is not a sufficient reason for inflicting death on a person.  Only when the person’s desertion of Islam is used as a political tool for instigating a state of disorder, or revolting against the law of Islam, can the individual apostate then be put to death as a just punishment for his act of treason and betrayal of the Muslim community.” 

 

Shaikh Syed Abul A’ala Maududi, Pakistani Islamic authority, The Punishment of the Apostate According to Islamic Law, translation by Syed Silas Husain, 1994: “In any case the heart of the matter is that children born of Muslim lineage will be considered Muslims and according to Islamic law the door of apostasy will never be opened to them. If anyone of them renounces Islam, he will be as deserving of execution as the person who has renounced kufr to become a Muslim and again has chosen the way of kufr. All the jurists of Islam agree with this decision. On this topic absolutely no difference exists among the experts of shari'ah.”

Therefore:

 

To support the civil rights of former Muslims, also known as apostates from Islam, I sign “The Muslim Pledge for Religious Freedom and Safety from Harm for Former Muslims”:

 

I renounce, repudiate and oppose any physical intimidation, or worldly and corporal punishment, of apostates from Islam, in whatever way that punishment may be determined or carried out by myself or any other Muslim including the family of the apostate, community, Mosque leaders, Shariah court or judge, and Muslim government or regime.

Signature: _________________________________________________________________________

Printed Name: _____________________________________________________________________

Organization/Title: __________________________________________________________________

Date: _____________________________________________________________________________

Please mail your signed pledge to Former Muslims United, 11856 Balboa Boulevard, #241, Granada Hills  CA  91344.  For more information contact info@formermuslimsunited.org.  *Complete fatwa texts posted at www.formermuslimsunited.org .

Comment by ACT Jacksonville on December 2, 2011 at 11:21am

The Muslim Pledge for Religious Freedom

 And Safety from Harm for Former Muslims

Whereas:

All four schools of Sunni Islamic law (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, and Hanbali), as well as the main schools of Shia Islamic law, unanimously agree that a former Muslim male, also known as an apostate, must be executed. While some hold that an apostate woman should also be executed, the Encyclopedia of Islamic Law: A compendium of the Major Schools, adapted by Laleh Bakhtiar, states that she should be imprisoned or beaten five times a day until she repents or dies. These specific world renowned Islamic legal authorities join in this consensus:

Head of the Fatawa Council of Al-Azhr, Abdullah al-Mishadd, of Al-Azhar University, the pre-eminent Shariah legal authority, Fatwa issued September 23, 1978: “This man has committed apostasy; he must be given a chance to repent and if he does not then he must be killed according to Shariah. As far as his children are concerned, as long as they are children they are considered Muslim, but after they reach the age of puberty, then if they remain with Islam they are Muslim, but if they leave Islam and they do not repent they must be killed…”*

 

Mufti of Lebanon, Beirut, Fatwa issued November 13, 1989: “Now, should the apostate (male or female) persist in his apostasy, he should be given the opportunity to repent, prior to his being put to death, out of respect for his Islam. A misunderstanding on his part may have taken place, and there would thus be an opportunity to rectify it. Often apostasy takes place on account of an offer (of inducement). So Islam must be presented to the apostate, things should be clarified, and his sin made manifest. He should be imprisoned for three days, so that he may have the opportunity to reflect upon his situation. This three-day period has been deemed adequate. But if the man or the woman has not repented of his or her raddah, but has continued to persist in it, then he or she should be put to death…”*

 

Ibn Rushd (Averroes), The Distinguished Jurist's Primer, "Chapter on the Hukm of the Murtadd (Apostate),” Volume II, (p. 552), Section 56.10:  “An apostate, if taken captive before he declares war, is to be executed by agreement in the case of a man, because of the words of the Prophet (God's peace and blessings be upon him), "Slay those who change their din:.  They disagreed about the execution of a woman and whether she to be required to repent before execution.  The majority said that a woman (apostate) is to be executed…”

 

Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller, translation approved by Al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy and IIIT, 1994 (p. 595): “ o8.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed….o8.4 There is no indemnity for killing an apostate (O: or any expiation, since it is killing someone who deserves to die).”

 

Ismail R. Al-Faruki , the Founder of International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), Islam, 1979 (p. 68):  “That is why Islamic Law has treated people who have converted out of Islam as political traitors…[Islam] must deal with the traitors when convicted after due process of law either with banishment, life imprisonment, or capital punishment…but once their conversion is proclaimed, they must be dealt with as traitors to the state.”

 

Louay Safi, the former Executive Director of IIIT and the Executive Director of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) Leadership Development Center, Peace and the Limits of War, IIIT publication, 2003 (p. 25): “A quiet desertion of personal Islamic duties is not a sufficient reason for inflicting death on a person.  Only when the person’s desertion of Islam is used

Comment by ACT Jacksonville on December 2, 2011 at 11:19am

Mrs. Choate,

Again, you have seen all the Authoritative Islamic documentation I have posted in our last debate, yet you jump in to say it is overblown.   The Sayyid Sister murdered in Texas, Aasiya Hussan the Wife of Muzzamil Hassan.. moderate "Bridges T.V. an interfaith outfit who was beheaded, and over two dozen other Muslim American women killed for being too westernized might disagree with you.  Of course those are just the ones we know of.

 

They are united because some of these Muslims live in fear and other who are in this group Nonie Darwish and Wafa Sultan have Fatwas or legal edicts calling on any Muslim in the Ummah or community to kill them in accordance with their doctrine.  

Amanda,  the three I's .... you are either Ignorant, Incompetent, or In bed (ideologically, monetarily, politically, or otherwise).   You can no longer claim ignorance...since our last lengthy debate.  You are either INCOMPETENT or IN BED...    WHICH IS IT?

Comment by amanda choate on December 2, 2011 at 8:55am

The very fact that there is a group known as Former Muslims United certainly hints at the fact that the death to apostates position may be overblown. Wouldn't be much of a group, unless they are zombies????!

Comment by Glenda Elizabeth Caldwell on December 2, 2011 at 8:24am

RUSH YOUR MONEY MUST HAVE BEEN AMERICAN MONEY!

Comment by Theresa Pletcher on December 2, 2011 at 8:20am

Not really, my concern is that he didn't pay his taxes and why wasn't Rush Limbaugh's money good enough for the NFL...everyone is bending over backwards to defend this man and they did nothing to defend Limbaugh. 

Comment by LOTTO NICK ! on December 2, 2011 at 7:28am

Look ,my advise for the new owner is to swap one of our  quarterbacks for Tebow , a determined  leader and motivator who Denver does not want  , so the ticket sales will be there ,give the people of this town what they want  and the sales the owner needs .IT IS THAT SIMPLE to keep this team in this town for NOW.

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