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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 10:38am

P.S.  for over 60 years we have supplied 100% of Germany's military ..American taxpayers taking the full cost.  This is no small feat.  it requires several bases with tanks, ships, planes, supplies, armaments, schools, family housing, club houses, barracks, PX, commissary,   ext. . Now do you not think it is time for us to end military welfare to Germany.  They can well afford to provide for their own defense, or at least pay for some of the cost.

These are only of the few examples of why so many active military men support Ron Paul. 

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Permalink Reply by Jack on January 31, 2012 at 10:52am

Well R&T that is exactly what he says. That is what is coming out of his own mouth. That is why most Tea Partiers and conservatives do not support him, otherwise most of them would. It may or may not be how he actually thinks but if it's not, he has done absolutely nothing to alter the perceptions or to clarify his position. If not for that fact he would be the clear choice, but things being what they are he just doesn't have a chance of getting the nomination.

Which brings me right back to the choice between Newt or Romney. I do not want to have to vote for Romney in the general just to get Obama out of office, but if I have to I will. Obama's reelection will be the final/fatal blow to this country. We are all on the same side here, we just differ in our opinion of what it is going to take to get us to the desired destination. If Romney gets the nomination our choice in the general will be Obama or Obama Lite. So that means that we have to circle the wagons now, dig our heals in and take a stand today and hope that it isn't already to late.

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 11:02am

You are correct about his ability to communicate verbally...I learned more about him from his writings on the internet.  He even said that is one of the things he is working on when Wolf Blitzer asked him what was the one thing he would change.  One of his greatest strengths is his knowledge of the facts, but he tries to cover them all in a sound bite.  He is better this year though than last year.  It is obvious he is working on his ability to communicate, and that is the one thing that Obama is very good at. Yet independent polls indicate that he beats Obama better than the other three candidates...if we can believe polls :-)

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 11:10am

http://www.prisonplanet.com/harris-poll-ron-paul-would-beat-obama-5...

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Permalink Reply by Jack on January 31, 2012 at 11:20am

Jonh, at what point have I said that I don't like Ron Paul? If memory serves me right, I have repeatedly said that I like him and could easily support him if not for his PERCIEVED foreign policy. However, with his very own statements out of his very own mouth he has said that 9/11 is our fault and that we are the cause of all the worlds hatred of us.

Even if that were true and its not, he is not going to win the support of enough people with comments like that to make him a viable candidate. He has just enough support to make himself a nuisance to the washington establishment and nothing more. They don't even really bother attacking him because they want him to stay in the race in order to dilute the conservative vote enough to guarantee that Romney gets the nomination.

We can debate this til the end of time but it doesn't really matter. It is what it is. Romney is going to get the nomination. The washington establishment is going to win again. The conservative vote is still divided and diluted to the point of being irrelevant and inconsequential. Newt is the only one currently capable of beating Romney reguardless of whether we like it or not. We have defeated ourselves once again.

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 11:26am

 

Ron Paul writings: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html 

In the last election (and for many years) they ridiculed his economic policy.  But because the people now overweeningly support him, they don't dare.  But they now call his foreign policy "dangerous", and isolationist because they know they can fool they people on that one.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on January 31, 2012 at 11:36am

That is exactly my point R&T, they can fool the people on that one and Ron Paul is not doing a damn thing to change it. In fact everything that comes out of his mouth only reaffirms it. Reality is that the dumb masses of America, the average american voter is an uninformed idiot, that is my whole point.

If a candidate is NOT clear and articulate with getting his message out there and educating these idiots then he just doesn't stand a chance reguardless of how good the message may be.
 
Roma and Tom said:

 

Ron Paul writings: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html 

In the last election (and for many years) they ridiculed his economic policy.  But because the people now overweeningly support him, they don't dare.  But they now call his foreign policy "dangerous", and isolationist because they know they can fool they people on that one.

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 11:47am

True, but look at the other options.  We have the choice between 3 progressive/ democrat liberals (RINOs) or a Libertarian Constitutionalists.  That is why it is so important for you to have the facts, so you can inform others, and that is what John is trying to do as well.  Meanwhile, he (Ron Paul) is working on his ability to communicate.

Jack Wright said:

That is exactly my point R&T, they can fool the people on that one and Ron Paul is not doing a damn thing to change it. In fact everything that comes out of his mouth only reaffirms it. Reality is that the dumb masses of America, the average american voter is an uninformed idiot, that is my whole point.

If a candidate is NOT clear and articulate with getting his message out there and educating these idiots then he just doesn't stand a chance reguardless of how good the message may be.
 
Roma and Tom said:

 

Ron Paul writings: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html 

In the last election (and for many years) they ridiculed his economic policy.  But because the people now overweeningly support him, they don't dare.  But they now call his foreign policy "dangerous", and isolationist because they know they can fool they people on that one.

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 11:58am

 

 John, you are a "bad boy." :-)  Jack  a NeoCon is someone who is a Conservative, and has unknowingly  adopted some progressive ideas (neoconservative) .  But I have also met some neolibertarians who have also unknowingly adopted some progressive ideas. In fact we all have, and that is why discussions like these are so important...we learn from each other.

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 12:28pm

Oops my mistake. I read too fast, and read into it that you were calling Jack a neocon, which I know has been offensive to him in the past.

John said:

bad boy? Perhaps... I like Rush but I don't listen anymore. I listened for a long time but I have never agreed with him 100%... And in the last year or so, I have noticed a bit of change. Since his marriage?

But the straw that broke it was when he actually bash, mis-characterize and spin just like the rest of the MSM against Ron Paul. That we have to destroy Iran and go down in a smoldering pile of debt! 

I logically assumed he would agree with RP on his fiscal ideas of smaller govt and all the other things the two speak of in similar ways... so what gives???

I wrote him and told him he lost credibility and why...

Roma and Tom said:

 

 John, you are a "bad boy." :-)  Jack  a NeoCon is someone who is a Conservative, and has unknowingly  adopted some progressive ideas (neoconservative) .  But I have also met some neolibertarians who have also unknowingly adopted some progressive ideas. In fact we all have, and that is why discussions like these are so important...we learn from each other.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on January 31, 2012 at 1:12pm

I don't know how many times I have got to say this but I really do like Ron Paul. We are all on the same side, we just have different ideas of what we need to do to get us to our common destination.

 

So guys let me ask you this. Do you really seriously think that today, right now, things being what they are that Ron Paul has any chance of getting the nomination much less winning the election? In a perfect world given more time to educate the dumb masses and to clarify the misperceptions and misinformation, maybe. If in fact that everything you guys are saying is true, Im not saying it is or it isnt, but if in fact it is being what the circumstances are today do you really honestly and seriously think that he has a snowballs chance in hell?

I don't, looking at reality from a logical viewpoint, I just don't see it. So until something changes we have to make our decisions on the choices that we have left. That is the point that I am trying to make. The American people are not just going to wake up TODAY and see the error of their ways. Its going to take time, we may or may not turn that corner when we get there but we are not there yet and that is the reality that we have to accept at the movement and that is the reality that we need to base our decisions on. We can work to change things as much as we can along the way but we can't deny what the reality is right now.

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Permalink Reply by Roma and Tom Cox on January 31, 2012 at 1:20pm

Absolutely I think he has a very good chance with the public.  My concern is that the establishment will do everything in their power to keep misinforming the people because they do not want to end their power and money, and they do not want to be forced back into the confines of the Constitution.

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