Comment

Comment by Cindy Falco- Di Corrado on September 19, 2011 at 9:37am

@ Steve, Here is the difference.  I live by the word of God.

God' is Love. God's law is NOT to kill, steal and destroy. IT is to NOT hurt precious children. Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me.  One Must come to Jesus as a little child to trust in him. NOt with ALL their theology.  Here is the difference between Islam and Christianity. I won't as a Christian Believer kill you for your Belief but Islam  They will kill me for mine. The Quoran says that they are NOT to befriend a Jew or  A Christian and. Anyone who is NOT a Muslim is considered an Infidel which means you and your precious son and wife will be killed.  Abortion is Murder. Do you believe that from the time of inception all that it took was for the sperm to enter the egg  to create a human being? This child is NOT a threat to anyone. This baby in the womb isn't trying to kill anyone or take anyone's life. It's a precious gift from God. If you have ever watched a film on reproduction you would see how stupid sperm cells can be.  It is Amazing and It is a Miracle. So when mankind kills this little innocent live this precious gift from God who is growing in its natural habitat of the womb and is ripped out or sucked out  this precious life did nothing except what God created the embryo to do in a supposibly safe haven.  That is Murder! That is God's shedding and killing an innocent life.  This is different from A people or " Sheria law" that  trains their childen from baby up to be a killing machine for allah. These children kill innocent people who for a false god who hates and tells them to kill. There is the difference.  I know you know that  in Sheria Law they are to  convert you to Islam if NOT  you are an infidel.If you  don't accept their god that they kill you. This is a mind set and is taught as an honor to kill someone for allah. This is very different.   Let me give you an example. My Father was a police officer and a Pastor. This was many many years back, My father's partner who was  also my dads friend were talking  one day and my His friend was sharing with him his belief. Yes, he was a Muslim. My father said to him you mean you would really kill me and His friend said NO but he would hire someone to do it because he has to.  You see this is a mind set ingrained from childhood.  This is NOT the same as abortion killing innocent baby's/people in the womb.  As you begin your parenting you will notice that you too will have rules.  WHy to set the guidelines to train your son to have good habits and to be a law abiding citizen.  So lets say you have no  rules...What does that look like for a moment:.  now your Son is  a teenager he wants to get high, do drugs drink your alcohol you know the stuff in the cupboard and pop your pills after all you do it. Then he decides to  drop out of school, destroy peoples property, disrespect himself and others. This is what  a lawless society looks like. Rules are implemented  to keep those things from going array. There are people who would only think about doing those  things because of they would understand that there are consequences.  Females have been using abortion as a form of  birth control/resolve for to many years.  My grandson would be if it weren't for my son who said you will NOT kill my baby.  The girl and her mother both were in agreeance for her to get an abortion but my son stood up and said that is my child too and I will take care of it but you don't have the right to kill him. My grandson is 13 years old now and is the love of his mothers life. She wouldn't of even had him if not for my son, his dad.    If abortion wasn't legal many would think twice before they would get one. If we made celibacy to be the norm and  adoption the option I think that girls and boys would think twice. People are going to do whatever they are going to do but if their were consequences many would think twice. We Society has made everything to easy and now look at the world we live in . Lack of Res

Comment by Steve Tikas on September 19, 2011 at 8:36am

@Cindy

 

I would love for our world to be at peace and tranquility but simply saying the Lord's prayer is not going to get us there especially if the people saying it are trying to force others to say it.  I pray and read my bible everyday, well 90% of the days, but that is me it is not for me to say what others should do.  Life is a miracle I have a newborn son that is one month old today so I know how much of a miracle it truly is and I see it everyday on my son's face.  I don't personally understand how someone could kill a baby and miss out on that opportunity but again that is my feelings and my beliefs and those feelings and beliefs still don't mean that I should force others to have them.

 

You say if there are no rules there will be people that prey on good people but that doesn't wash because even with rules there are people that pray on good people.  People inherently know good from bad and even if there were not roles saying don't kill someone most people know that is bad and the ones that don't are like drug addicts I spoke about and they don't care regardless of the laws on the books.

 

Cindy I asked you a question in one of my messages that you still have not answered.  Here is my question "Cindy please answer this question would you like other religions or groups trying to get you to do things that you do not want to do?  How would you feel if Muslims came over here and tried to enforce Sharia law?  Answer that question honestly and then explain to me how what you are trying to say is any different then what they are trying to do." 

 

Give it some thought and give me an honest answer to that question because from what you say I see you wanting to do the same thing that Islam is trying to do.  They are trying to force others to live by the laws of Islam because they feel they are a superior way to live and I don't see anything different in what you are saying other then you want it to be Christianity instead of Islam.

Comment by Christy on September 19, 2011 at 7:48am

A I read stmts. like "The Lord's Prayer" is not for the entire country it makes me wonder why some people do not wish for peace and tranquility thru whatever method for all people.  Are their people not worthy of tht kind of hope for them?  It is sad to know that there r people tht would not use a tool of hope, yes, recite the words of hope, for all men, women and children, esp. babies, thru no fault of their own need protection and hope.  If Mom's would follow God's words they would not be killing their babies, if they would jus follow the law of man, they would not be killing their babies.  Life is a miracle and should be thought of it tht. way, there is so little respect for life, it is so overlooked.  If there r no rules there r people who will prey on good people until there is only a Sodom and Gommorrah again here on earth.  IMO (in my opinion) Sodom and Gommorrah is DC now and creeping even closer, most States r fast becoming S&G.  Pray my friends, Pray out loud, Pray often and keep the faith and hope we have.

Comment by Steve Tikas on September 18, 2011 at 8:39pm

@Cindy

 

I have a New American Bible but I looked up the KJV and your right about how it is worded in the KJV.  God established the law thru Moses for his people but the law was flawed in the regards that it did not lead to salvation it only lead to sin threw people not obeying it.  If the law, or the government that you are talking about, was the right thing Jesus would never had to come to earth and die on the cross.  (see the bible references I mentioned earlier to prove my point on this subject). 

 

As far as Isaiah I think it is clear that the government that is being spoken about is Jesus and his dominion over the earth and I don't see how that applies to our conversation about government forcing people to do things because we as Christians feel that we are morally superior to others.

 

God cares about everyone even the ones that do not care about him.  In the case of Joseph by Joseph following God's lead think of how many people were saved and many of them did not believe as Joesph believed.  I don't really disagree with any one thing you said but nothing you say shows me that we as Christians are right in forcing others threw laws to do what we say is right.  We are to bring people to him threw love not force.  This is the basis for my entire point and it goes past just this little conversation it goes to everything on this page.  As far as Iraq, Afghanistan, Muslims and all the rest.  Force is not living in accord with love and no matter how you slice it not living with accord with love is just as bad as anything you  might be trying to prevent.  Also force is not the way that things get done it only leads to more violence.  Self defense is the only real cause for violence and then only until the threat against yourself, family, friends, or whoever is gone after the threat is gone there is no longer a cause for force.

Comment by Steve Tikas on September 18, 2011 at 7:52pm

@Cindy

 

The Lords prayer is a prayer for Christians not for an entire country.  There is nothing in the bible that tells us that we are supposed to push our views onto others by force which is what government is.  When something becomes a law it is something that can be enforced with force the laws of God cannot, or at least should not, be enforced by force because then you are outside the commandment that Jesus gave us about love.  The commandments were written to tell God's children how to live not as a basis to force the rest of the world to live by them.

 

As someone that used to do drugs heavily I can answer your question about drugs and no the law saying you can go to jail for this that or the other thing doesn't even come into your mind.  If you have not been in that world you cannot understand the motives.  Now I never got into the really hard stuff like crack and heroin but I did just about everything else and I didn't give a second thought to the consequences.  That is not to say that I did not know what they were I just didn't care I was more concerned with having fun then with what might happen to me.  I don't say that to brag because it is not something I'm proud of but it is my past and it is part of me and I will not run from it or be ashamed of it.  My mother in law and some of my in laws where into the heavy stuff and I can tell you from what she said it is even less of a concern with the heavy drugs.  They were also saved from that life by Jesus and the Holy Spirit as was I.

 

As far as making it legal yes I think drugs should be legal now I think if you commit an action against someone else you should be punished for it.  Drug laws are another gigantic waste of time, money, and government resources and our drug policy has done nothing to solve the problem of drugs.  You do not stop a problem by making the actions illegal you stop a problem at the source of the demand which is what our drug policy fails to recognize. 

 

The motives behind a crime should not matter it is like hate crimes what does it matter why you beat the hell out of someone.  Why is it different if you are on drugs when you do it.  I don't see how it makes it any more or less worse if you are screaming racial slurs at them while you do it.  

 

Cindy please answer this question would you like other religions or groups trying to get you to do things that you do not want to do?  How would you feel if Muslims came over here and tried to enforce Sharia law?  Answer that question honestly and then explain to me how what you are trying to say is any different then what they are trying to do.  Forcing someone to do something has never, and will never, solve any problem at best you can tickle around the edge of a problem but you will never solve it like that.  You apply enforce to any group and they will eventually fight back.

 

@Ed

That was very well expressed as to why people in other countries don't like us and why it would be better for us to mind our own business.  Like I said above you apply enforce to any group and they will fight back.  If you do any honest investigation into our middle east, and quite honestly our world wide policy, and think how we as Americans would feel if another country did that to us and you will find out why they don't like us.  We like to think of ourselves as liberators but sorry that is not how others see us and you can argue the point on if it is wrong of them to see us that way or not but it doesn't change the fact that most of the world sees us as occupiers. 

Comment by Cindy Falco- Di Corrado on September 18, 2011 at 6:53pm

 

 

 @Steve, What bible version do you read?

Isaiah 9:6 in my bible clearly says(,KJV )   the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, the Mighty  God.   What does that mean to you? It means that we live in this world but we are NOT of it for those who are born again. Jesus taught the Kingdom of God. It is A kingdom with a King. King Jesus.  He is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. I was sharing with you about Abraham  in  Old testament that God did establish governments through the 12 tribes of Israel. In regards to your statement to:Jesus does not care about government, building, things, or any of the sort he cares about his people.

 

Jesus is caring for and a bout  his people. Joseph proving the food for his family,  Moses to  Pharaoh...Let my people go, Queen Esther, If God didn't' care about his people they would of been totally destroyed from the earth. Yes, Jesus does care under what rulings we live under. It affects his  people. So in your statement there is apart of the truth in that Jesus does care about people and it affects every aspect of life.  

Abortion is murder. Shedding innocent blood ....Blessings

Comment by Steve Tikas on September 18, 2011 at 4:46pm

@cindy in regards to Ron Paul

 

Ron Paul was talking about suicide bombers in the US and against our troops and property overseas and here at home.  And he is correct the idea of suicide bombers here and against us was unheard of before we stuck our nose in their business.  We would not like, and do not like, Islam trying to dictate what we do here at home but yet we do the same thing to them and expect them not to say anything.  We are wrong in doing that just like they are wrong in trying to change our society to fit into their views.  Isreal is more than able to take care of their selves and he is right we should keep our nose out of their business as well as the rest of the world.  As a country we should worry about our country not everyone else.  As people we are free to concern ourselves with anything we feel so inclined to but as a country it is none of our business we should keep our nose out of it.

 

My feelings on this is the same as on religion just because you may think something is better then someone elses views does not give you the right to force them to try and believe what you believe, or as a country live the way we live.

Comment by Ed Oertli on September 18, 2011 at 4:43pm

Mark, I agree we need to bring them all home. I was intentionally very conservative with the 100,000 Civilian Casualties figure for Iraq and Afghanistan. See the websites below:

Over 250,000 in Iraq and 35,000 in Afghanistan through July 2007

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/government_employee/06/22/civilian-de... 

989,000 in Iraq alone through September of 2010

http://www.theroadtothehorizon.org/2011/05/civilian-casualties-in-i...  

By far most of the Civilian Deaths are from Collateral damage. They shoot a hellfire rocket or drop a bomb on a home or a building—innocent civilians will often die along with the bad guys. I have a seen a video showing deadly machine gun fire by one of our helicopter gun ships shoot what appears to be an unarmed family in a van. Our Troops are under tremendous stress and sometimes they can crack. They have to endure multiple tours of combat duty, using Highly Toxic DU (Depleted Uranium) Ammunition, sleepless days/night and always on edge for attack.  It is most horrible for innocents are harmed by occupying foreign countries. Most of them did not want or ask for the war, the War came to them. We are not going to create any goodwill like this. Quite the contrary—It becomes a breeding ground for a future enemies based on the powerful revenge factor. Our Military has better ways to carry out a short duration and precision response to terrorists. However, it seems we would rather stay in a country as long as possible to run up the Tax-Payer Tab and perform so called Nation Building,

Ron Paul has a better way. Listed below is his much more effective and logical policy:

http://www.ronpaul.com/2011-09-11/ron-paul-on-911-ask-the-right-que...

Comment by Steve Tikas on September 18, 2011 at 4:39pm

@cindy

 

In my bible it is Isaiah 9:5-6 and my bible does not say anything about government mine says

5: For a child is born to us, a son is given us; upon his shoulder dominion rests.  They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace

6: His dominion is vast and forever peaceful, From David's throne, and over his kingdom, which he confirms and sustains By judgment and justice, both now and forever.  The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this! 

I'm not sure what that has to do with our conversations on abortion though.

 

I think you are misunderstanding my position I'm not saying that abortion is right or that it does not go against God's law I'm simply saying it is not governments job to dicate morals which is what the government does in the case of abortion. That is simply not the governments job.  I have said it before abortion is immoral by my standard and should be by any believers standards but that does not mean we should force our morals onto others.  We do not like atheists, Buddhist, Islamist, or any other group trying to force their morals onto us so how is it right for us to do it to them and to others.  If my morals don't effect your person or property I don't see why it is any of your business (I don't mean  you specifically just using you in the general sense).

 

Your history is off Abraham was not the first form of government by any stretch of the imagination.  Yes God did give the Israelites the law by which they lived.  However when Jesus came him abolished the old law and made a new and everlasting covenant with his people.  If you want proof that Jesus abolished the old law there are many scriptures showing this.  1 Cor 15:50-58, 2 Cor 3:7-18, Gal 2: 15-21, Gal 3:1-29 (most specifically 10-18).  There are many more scriptures showing this.  Jesus came to abolish the old law because the old law did not lead to righteousness because it was forced upon them and only lead to sin when they did not obey it.  This alone is evidence that forcing someone to do something is not showing God's love if it was the old law would have been enough to get you into heaven but it is not the old law only leads to sin when it is not followed.

 

Ask yourself how is forcing someone to do something living in accordance with love which is what all of us Christians are supposed to do.  As far as your question I'm not sure I understand it or I would give you my answer to it. 

 

I agree that we as Christians need to speak up and make our voices heard and my voice and your voice would be together when we speak my only issue is with the idea of government forcing someone to do something that goes against their morals that does not effect other people.  The bible says man has dominion over the earth not simply Christians.  We as Christians feel we are more moral than the next guy and in the end I believe we will be found right but that still does not give us cause to dictate how others live. 

 

I know we might not agree but I am enjoying this conversation it is nice to talk to someone about Jesus that does not get upset and start throwing slander around.  So thank you for that and if you have more to add to the conversation I am more than happy to hear and respond.

Comment by Cindy Falco- Di Corrado on September 18, 2011 at 4:10pm

Laws don't stop people from doing what they are going to do but it will make one think twice before doing it and less available.  lets say a junkie is going to shoot their dope no matter what so should we make it legal? Just because people are going to do what their going to do should we just let it be.  Remember why the Commandments were written, to show people what is sinful .  We can go on and on in this.  In regards to abortion today, many are still dying from it.  That isn't an excuse to allow it. Neither is Murder.  

Something else I would like to ask in regards to The Lords Prayer...  Thy Kingdom come thy will be done In Earth at it is in Heaven. What does this mean to you?        

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