Comment

Comment by Steve Tikas on October 12, 2011 at 11:10am

Amanda I think that there would still be plenty of people that would buy new.  If the math is right and there is a 22% embedded tax, on average, in the price of every item we buy already the price of the car would be unchanged from what we have now.  Actually the price would go down because the 23% would only be counted once the 22% has been taken out.  Say 20,000 car (and this would be before tax, tag, and title) currently would cost 15,600 without the 22% embedded tax and then when you add the 23% sales tax the cost goes to $19,188 so even with the 23% the price will be lower.  The more effluent people in society are still going to buy new because they want that new smell or whatever reason they decide they want new.  People in the poor and middle class honestly should be buying used anyway.  I think if anything is going to suffer it would be housing more then cars but I honestly think that the same logic of effluent will continue to want new and will continue to buy new.

 

My biggest issue is making sure that the 16th amendment is repealed before the Fair Tax is implemented.  I know someone pointed out that it is written in the bill currently we just need to make sure it stays in there and it is followed thru on.  I also think that any increase in the rate would need to be passed by a vote of the people and not by passage of a law.  Mr. Newberry made a good point yesterday that the goal needs to be to do away with the income tax in all forms and the Federal government needs to go back to doing what it is supposed to which is almost nothing (well compared to what they do now). 

Comment by amanda choate on October 12, 2011 at 10:57am

doyle and dungan,

There is only one "economist" that has had their name associated with 9-9-9, some goofball who is a personal wealth advisor. But he does have a bachelors degree from Case Western. It is a regressive tax in the fact that the higher percetnage of your income that you spend on basics the higher your tax rate.

And my real problem with the plan is that he couldn't not explain the revenue stream. How it would effect the economy, and how he arrived at that.

Here is the problem with the fair tax.

Say you are a company that makes new things, say cars. Well your car gets hit with a 17-21% tax rate while a guy buying a used car gets hit with nothing. So the tax would in effect tuen us into Cuba with people driving arond in 50 year cars, with fifty year old fridges, only the repair shops and thrift stores would thrive.  You would disincentivize new  purchases.

Comment by Steve Tikas on October 12, 2011 at 10:45am

When I said other news sources I was not talking about NBC, ABC, CBS as those are slanted as well and I said look to sources other then these.  I was more talking about off the wall sites, maybe you are part of those if you are on a lot of news list but that is what I was talking about because all of the MSM news sources, including Fox slant things one way or the other.  It is harder to see the slant on Fox maybe because you agree with more of the stuff they say there, as do I, but they still have a slant.  Maybe not the strict news coverage but when most of their political commentators are conservatives, and there are a ton of them the station as a whole is viewed as slanted.  All of them only report the news as they want it reported. 

I have stopped listening to all of the major news sources because to me they are all slanted to whichever way is particular to them.  I just want someone that tells me facts, or allows me to read them for myself, and lets me make up my own mind and I don't feel I get that with any of those major sources.

Stewart, as well as Stephen Colbert, are comedians first and they will bluntly say it but they also do a great job exposing the hypocrisy of the media, and politicians, as a whole. 

Comment by Steve Tikas on October 12, 2011 at 10:35am

I know you said don't address you JL but I have to give credit where it is due and that is the most logical concise argument anyone has made for your point.  I understand where you are coming from a lot better now and when put like that I agree with your point of view a lot more.  I still believe that people should all be judged on an individual basis and I loath lumping everyone into a group (that is one of my core principles) but other then that I'm in agreement with you.  I know you may not care but like I said I will give credit where it is due.

Comment by Patricia M. McBride on October 12, 2011 at 10:29am

Steve, I am on so many news mailing lists and alerts, it scares even me, because it can so get ahead of you and fills my mail box beyond belief if I am away for a couple of days (and is hard enough to keep up with when I am in here every day).  I do not plan on watching the liberal media to get my news.  Although Jon Stewart has been enjoyable to watch the couple of times I have seen him in interviews and fully admits he is a funny guy more than anything else, I caught the clip Amanda recommended the other day, and what I heard were lies...........it was nbc or abc, but it was someone touting these protests and I could have thrown up when you heard the description of these folks.  No mention of the communists being behind it, no mention of the unions being involved, no mention that they are protesting in the wrong place and should be in front of the white house.   Almost 4 years ago, when we still watched NBC, ABC and CBS some, I started to notice a sharp left turn, and one day, I just decided watching these stations was no longer anything I could do because it was clearly obvious to me, they were no longer presenting the news.  They were telling me what to think based on their own beliefs and ideology and their support for the far left and had long since had anything to do with the truth or being unbiased.  What has changed?  And the answer is NOTHING.  They are still doing the same things.  I do not plan on watching them and I will continue watching Fox, a little CNN and reading my mountains of news sources on line and we get the WSJ at home at this time which covers the spectrum.

Comment by JL Gawlik on October 12, 2011 at 10:10am

Patricia, i think the point needs to be made, is that people must stand up for the principles and values they believe in. This whole notion of compromise is PC-BS. WHY should someone compromise their core values? Isn't that what is wrong in Congress? In our government? In our whole society? WHY should people lower their standards to accommodate those who lie and deceive? I am very sad to see the many who people not aware of who is behind this whole movement that has been orchestrated for a couple of years now. But that is their choice, they can think on their own or do they walk blindly into situations everyday?

I have made mine and i will not stand up for people who lie and deceive, people who want to destroy our US Constitution, our Constitution Republic, our Capitalist, Free enterprise in our country. They represent these very people by their involvement and acceptance of food, support, money and backing. 

WHY should people have to abandon their core principles and values?

That would be like standing up with people denouncing GOD, or our Constitutional Republic and that is against my core beliefs, I would NEVER stand up with people like that.

Comment by Steve Tikas on October 12, 2011 at 9:35am

I understand where you are coming from and I see your point.  I don't agree with you but I definitely see were you are coming from.  I will agree that the ones that are just following blindly need to wake up and do their homework on things.  Everyone needs to do their homework and by homework that means looking at places other then Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ET, or one of the other main media spots because they ALL slant things to one side or the other.  I think Jon Stewart gave the best description of the MSM it is not even so much a slant as their desire for sensational journalism that drives them.  I think there is more of a slant then he will admit but I thought about what he said and they are in it for ratings and they will say things and air things to get ratings, unfortunately in many cases they air stuff that is untrue or only one sided.

Comment by Patricia M. McBride on October 12, 2011 at 9:20am

Steve, I am not saying there aren't some folks that don't know what is going on that got pulled into these protests without even knowing who was running them...........and there in lies the problem.  We know, and it was not by accident that we knew.  It was all over the internet.  There just aren't that many people who are not on the internet anymore, so if we found out, why didn't these folks????  I can't give anyone a pass, because showing up is a show of support for the Communist Party USA.  Some of the signs should have told people it wasn't something they wanted to be involved in or perhaps the folks handing out communist literature which they do regularly at these things or some of the speakers perhaps that said things that didn't sound "truly" American.  Certainly, I am not angry or upset with you, and I hear you.  I just can't give them a pass, because it is what we have been doing for too long.  We didn't know what was happening or what our politicians were doing and slowly over many years they have changed our country into something the founders would barely recognize.  We are all responsible for that, but the folks who followed blindly and went to these protests are even worse than you and I.  We woke up, but they are still following blindly.

Comment by Steve Tikas on October 12, 2011 at 8:37am

I keep saying I'm not trying to get people to stand with these protestors, hell I'm not even standing with them, I just wish that when people spoke they didn't make it out to be that all of these people are pinko commies.  It is not that I think ALL of these folks are okay or I would be standing with them, but I do think that SOME of these folks are okay.  I do think that most of these people do want to blame the right person they don't know who the right person is most of these people are mad at both parties, and it is both parties faults, and are lashing out, I will admit in many cases blindly.  I hear just as many negative things about Obama as I do others.  If you just take all of your sound bites from certain cites then yes you would think that all of the protestors just hate rich people but if you go and look at other less conventional places there are tons of videos of people calling for ending the fed, sound money, end to CRONY capitalism.  Yes many are stupid and ignorant and yes there are influences that are less then what most would call America but that does not change that many of these people are not pinko commies that just want other peoples money they are just Americans that are mad at how the political class has continued to screw us on an every more increasing basis.  Why do things have to be all or nothing.  Either we have to condemn all of the people or somehow you are standing with them that doesn't make sense on anything more then a purely emotional basis.

As much as I blame on the Dems and the President this problem has been going on for longer then just them.  Remember that until Obama Bush was one of the most reckless spenders in history.  We can't blame all of the countries problems on one man that has been in office for less then three years.  To do that you lose sight of the bigger picture which is just what they want you to do. 

Comment by Patricia M. McBride on October 12, 2011 at 8:18am

Steve, the communist party USA is running this show.  Ergo, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.  I am sorry if there are others involved that don't realize who and what this is all about; shame on them for not knowing before they got involved!  This does not change my mind about this protest one little bit.  You don't think these folks want the actual blame placed on those responsible, do you?  And that would be democrats in congress and this president is doing the same thing all over again with the housing.  I did not make your point.  You seem to think these folks are ok.  They are not ok.

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