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Comment by John Harvel on January 23, 2011 at 6:46am

Gotcha:O) I surely wasn't disagreeing with you. Have you ever heard of hyper-realistic tactical training?  Click here: Test Video Player

Comment by John Harvel on January 23, 2011 at 2:54am

Ok, John, I hope the six people watching learned something. I knew you wouldn't figure it out.... J.R. ... What ever this phenomena called the tea party is, it tickles the crap out of me. Thanks

Comment by J.R. on January 22, 2011 at 11:07pm

Well, I guess it's my turn again.  John Stevenson, I have a bone to pick with you.  Quite unnecessarily, and perhaps intentionally, you have provocatively twisted and mis-stated much of what I wrote earlier...and, I might add, in a most unattractive way.  You do no justice to your own weak argument by doing this and it appears to have been done for the pure sake of agitation. Your serving the ends of the progressive socialist agenda does no justice to the truth. 

No one said that "95% of the people are beholden to anyone..." or that "all the laws and benefits should flow to these few."  And, there is nothing objectionable about stating a proven fact that is now quoted widely every day about what percentage the rich pay of the total of all federal income taxes paid in this country each year.  Facts are facts, they are finite, and they can't be molded, shaped and twisted into a pretzel just to make them suit your false arguments. Further, sentiment in relation to this topic is irrelevant. 

While you have not been paying close enough attention to what's actually been happening, all three "classes" have  been getting hammered financially---not just the "middle class."  And, by the way, class envy is not a pretty thing to behold.

 

It's beginning to look like you not only want to spread the wealth, you now also want to spread untruths.  How gentlemanly of you to refer to me as an oligarch, which means you're accusing me of believing in a government of the few in which a small group exercises control, especially for corrupt and selfish purposes---when you just read what I wrote espousing a constitutional republic.  There was nothing oligarchic, or even a hint of it, in what I wrote and it is disgustingly disingenuous for you to draw such a dishonest and antithetical inference. What you can, in fact, characterize as oligarchic is the Obama administration and his progressive socialist step-and-fetch-it Democrat robots in Congress who continuously commemorate each other and use American taxpayers' money as earmark chits for votes and place future generations of Americans in debt up to their eyeballs for the rest of their lives... and generations to come. 

As for the U. S. Constitution, the enumerated powers were designed to limit the power and control of the federal government, for it was the several states that united to form the federal government (not the other way around) and they knew from experience what they had to fear from an over-reaching and all-powerful federal government.  You may be sure if a specific power is not enumerated in the Constitution, it was not meant to be allowed unless there was a Constitutional Convention and an Amendment to the Constitution that was ratified by a specified majority of the States.  If a power is not enumerated in the Constitution, there is no mandate, responsibility or permission to do it or allow it to be done.  It's very simple, really... ABC,123 simple.

With reference to free markets, apparently you haven't been paying attention well in that area either.  The progressive-socialist agenda of the Obama administration and the then Democrat-controlled U.S. House of Representatives and Senate demonstrated that they eschew free markets, demanding instead a cradle to grave dependent populace who have no voice and government has all the power and control over every area of their lives, extending from stringent population control all the way to the State (government bureaucrats) getting to decide when and how you die, whether it be by withholding medicine and critical care treatment or just letting you starve to death.  Hard to believe anyone could include such heinous and unmerciful acts under the rubric of "healthcare."

The federal government is not responsible for or responsible to do the things you attribute to them as inherent powers... they are not the solution, they are the problem and need to get out of the way of free markets. Your idea that the government assures a free market is ludicrous on its face.  A free market solution would be to allow health insurance to be sold across state lines nationwide and competition will correct for inflated healthcare premiums... and likely some healthcare costs as well. The government needs to keep its hands off the healthcare sector of the economy.  The fact that it's not in the Constitution is enough to let us know that it is not a valid role for the federal government.

This week, the U. S. House of Representatives repealed the health care bill HR-2 with a stunning vote of 245 - 189. Also this week, the Attorney General of Georgia became the latest Attorney General to add his state to the list of ca, 26 other states, in joinder with those other plaintiffs in the federal court battles to have Obamacare declared unconstitutional. 

And, for your information I am proud to be one of the majority of Americans who want to take our country back from the over-reachers' unconstitutional power grab and will do anything I can legally do to further that worthy and necessary cause.  I am also proud to be a Tea Party patriot who cannot be swayed by naysayers and false prophets... and that includes Tea Party pretenders and obliquers who are akin to camels with their noses under the tent.

 

  

 

 

Comment by John Harvel on January 22, 2011 at 5:55pm

Roma and Tom,

 

I've seen some pretty convincing arguments that we have already fulfilled all ten of the major planks of the communist manifesto in this country.

 

The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are…

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State “income” taxes. We call it “paying your fair share”.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public “law” 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of “terrorists” and those who speak out or write against the “government” (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc…).

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. Most local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver’s licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read “controlled or subsidized” rather than “owned”… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two “income” family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920′s, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public “law” 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Americans are being taxed to support what we call ‘public’ schools, but are actually “government force-tax-funded schools ” Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based “Education” . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like “majority rules”, and “pay your fair share”. WHERE are the words “fair share” in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is “fair share” even suggested !! The philosophical concept of “fair share” comes from the Communist maxim, “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. … America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC … Teaching ourselves and others how to “fish” to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be “needy”… Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

Do changing words, change the end result? … By using different words, is it all of a sudden OK to ignore or violate the provisions or intent of the Constitution of the united States of America?????

The people (politicians) who believe in the SOCIALISTIC and COMMUNISTIC concepts, especially those who pass more and more laws implementing these slavery ideas, are traitors to their oath of office and to the Constitution of the united States of America… KNOW YOUR ENEMY …Remove the enemy from within and from among us.

For even a more bizarre twist on what you think of any certain politician, check out this story. I for one need to know more about this one.  

Click here: Sultan Knish a blog by Daniel Greenfield

Comment by John Harvel on January 22, 2011 at 3:13pm

Hello Tracy, there is no fooling you. I was trying to be a little more polite than pointing out his views was Marxist in nature. That is, to correct this inequality between the bourgeoisie, who are the wealthy minority, and the proletariat, who are the poorer majority, Marxism advocates, and believes in the historical inevitability of, a proletarian revolution, when the proletariat take control of government, and then implement reforms to benefit their class, namely the confiscation of private property which is then taken under state control and run for the benefit of the people rather than for the interests of private profit. Such a system is socialism, although Marxists believe that eventually a socialist society would develop into an entirely classless system, which is known as communism in Marxist thought.

 

My argument is, we already live in a Marxist utopia, that revolution has already been won and the tea party is the rebellion against that. His rhetoric implies we need to continue down that road of socialism because it hasn't been given a fair chance. When he asks "from whom we want our country back," I could have said; "from people like you, you moron". But, how could that be productive?

 

If I was to punch someone, they wouldn't learn as much as, lets say, six people that were watching. I think this has been a great post. Thanks John Stephenson.  

Comment by Tracy on January 22, 2011 at 12:24pm

FYI to the members, Mr.Stephenson is our resident DNC paid troll.He pops up every few weeks or months to take any opportunity he can get to bash the tea party.While he claims to be libertarian the positions he spouts are more in line with the democrat party.Pay no attention and eventually he will find some other website to bother.

Comment by J.R. on January 22, 2011 at 8:09am

Mr. Stephenson, you make some very good points, but I have to take exception to a few things you wrote.

 

First, personal liberty is stolen when the government forces you to buy something you don't want, rations your healthcare, and takes it upon itself to determine when you die, assuming that you haven't been convicted of a high crime and received the death penalty.

As to the state and federal highways John Harvel and the rest of us travel, they are paid for by private citizens and privately-owned businesses through taxes on their personal and business income, on their property, on most items they purchase, and on the fuel they buy for the vehicles they drive.  The government produces nothing, earns no money, and pays no taxes. If the government is paying all of this for you, the rest of us are getting stiffed.

 

Further, no one class of people should be placed at the fore above other classes of people, as is appropriately covered in the 1st, 5th, 7th, and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution which assure basic freedoms, equality, equal treatment and due process for all of us.  The so-called middle class would not exist but for the ingenuity and entrepreuneurship of the 5% or so of the population who create the jobs that enable the middle class to rise to that level and standard of living.  It is also that 5% or so of the population who pay the vast majority of taxes in this country, both personal and business. 

 

And, if anyone needs a legitimate source regarding what's in the Obama socialized-medicine law, they can go to The Heritage Foundation website.  It is The Heritage Foundation who provides ALL members of the U.S. Congress with thorough, detailed research and analysis of all bills before them prior to a vote on those bills and they did so on the more than 2,000 page so-called healthcare bill.

 

By the way, it's a stretch to call progressive views "Libertarian."  Progressive views pave the way to socialism, which paves the way to communism, both of which are alien to a constitutional republic.  

Comment by John Harvel on January 22, 2011 at 6:40am

Hey look, Mr Stephenson, I agree with you. I'm not much of a debater. But why not go the route that has brought you this media to voice your opinion or the ability to communicate from any where you happen to be. It's pretty amazing when the free market is allowed to do it's thing in an environment free of manipulation and regulation.

 

I personally don't give much credit to opinions based on a reliance of snopes. And I don't have much faith in allowing a system to be run by those that have pretty much brought it to it's knees. HMO's are a good example.  Medicare is another. There is no bureaucrat making life and death decisions for me when I'm on the highway or telling me where to go and when. I think your apples and oranges on that one.

 

Health care is like justice, you get all you can afford and those who act like government is a religion deserve neither. Unjust laws seems to come from those who believe laws have been unjust or the spoils of plunder have in some way evaded them. 

 

Health care is just one more of those debates that every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all.

 

As for my Libertarian tendencies, if to extend indefinitely the domain of the law; that is, the responsibility of government.

 

But what if the government undertakes to control and to raise wages, and cannot do it; if the government undertakes to care for all who may be in want, and cannot do it; if the government undertakes to support all unemployed workers, and cannot do it; if the government undertakes to lend interest- free money to all borrowers, and cannot do it; if the state considers that its purpose is to enlighten, to develop, to enlarge, to strengthen, to spiritualize, and to sanctify the soul of the people -- and if the government cannot do all of these things, what then? Is it not certain that after every government failure -- which, alas! is more than probable -- there will be an equally inevitable revolution?

I truly hope you find solace in your quest for healthcare utopia and that my quest to recover a lost constitutional republic don't upset you too much. 

Comment by John Harvel on January 21, 2011 at 7:16am

I'm such a great blogger I tried to edit my last comment and wiped the whole thing out!

Comment by J.R. on January 21, 2011 at 7:12am

Right, again, John.  It's sort of like swallowing a camel to strain a gnat,  Sounds like you have described the manipulative financial maneuvers of the so-called Bilderburghers and Illumaniti who live to manipulate global markets.  The Illumanati, of course, are the "enlightened ones" who are better able to determine what is best for the masses, including you and me, than we are.

And, didn't Obama say he wanted to "spread the wealth?"  Well, he's spreading it all right by dipping into those trillions to, by making an end run around the Congress (legislative branch) and unconstitutionally legislating from the executive branch, unaccountably spread Americans' wealth to other countries.  It's not only a raid on the Treasury (our money), it's another end run, this one around the U.S. House of Representatives, who are the only entity authorized by the U. S. Constitution to originate money bills.  If a money bill does not originate with them, no one else in government can originate anything new that authorizes spending our money on anything. 

Unfortunately, our narcissistic president with a sense of entitlement as big as all outdoors does not understand the limitations on the executive branch of government and believes being elected President entitles him to treat our Constitution like silly putty and treat us like vassals on a medieval estate in Europe.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...

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